~*Curiosity*~
I've noticed sex is like the one thing thats taboo to talk about at L* and other messageboards.Not that I don't understand why...it prolly keeps the quality of it alot better and alot of trollz away..
but I'm breaking the taboo here and now if I haven't already here.
I was thinking about how far back I was turned on by stuff, it didn't start at puberty. It goes all the way back practically. I mean it changed with the conciousness of what stuff really meant etc..but it was always there.
In some ways the pure energy without definition that I felt when i was younger was more powerful...no taboos on it yet, except the one that every kid knows...
don't talk to adults about these feelings or they will tell you its wrong.
and really who would want to, that idea gives me the creeps.
I remember my best friend Liz and I talking about a certain fantasy when we were 7...supposedly the same one, vastly different.
it involved getting kidnapped by 2 princes..and taken away.
she told me hers involved her prince whisking her away
to some romantic place and the lights dim and end of scene like a g rated movie.
when I heard that I knew I couldn't tell her mine.
It involved being kidnapped and the prince was more pirate like very dark anyway in manner...yet not completely crude...a lil evil..i guess..
and being taken somewhere I didn't know and pretty much being held captive and...it was totally S&M like stuff going on...tho i didn't know what that was yet...
hell I didn't even understand how sex physically worked yet...yet the desires were still there and the fantasies.
Curious if anyone else isnt too wierded out talking about this, to know if you've had similar or different experiences this way, I have talked to a couple girls who seem to have had the same experiences as I,
but its not something most people admit to.
which makes it an interesting subject.
it shows how out of control people are that they can't deal with admitting children have sexuality without fearing it will cause people to become pedophiles....which it often would, because people are so out of control.
of course it was certainly the same with the world view of woman's sexuality and still is in many places around the world.
curious to see what kind of stuff this will generate.
Ahhhh I love the anonymity of the internet. Makes it so much easier to talk about things you wouldn't normally talk about.
Now this is a curious topic, hey? And it certainly does raises questions that makes the borders of morality extremely fuzzy.
Right then. I had a buddy I hung out with alot. I've known Scott literally all my life, and vice versa. When we were kids (and this is before puberty) we not only thought about sex and such, we even acted it out to an extent. We liked to take baths together because we were [i]really[/i] good buddies. We would jack each other off. Even perform fellatio sometimes. As we got older, it got more serious, but I moved and we've lost touch.
Is [i]that[/i] a good response for you?
Personally, I wonder how he feels about all that today. Me, I'm not sure. I've never really thought about it much. I've just accepted it, I guess.
It also makes you wonder, not just about child sexuality, but sexual orientation. Now, I'm not gay. But not straight either. I wonder how much experiences and environment play a part in determining a person's sexual orientation. Or if one is born that way. You know, I knew my cousin was gay before I knew what gay was. Probably before he even realized it hims'elf.
Very curious....
Hm.
Funny this comes up. I just (alright, last week--but no one has touched the subject there since) made a post on another board defending child sexuality, actually. Not "pornography" (although that could be anotehr subject entirely, child porn), and certainly not any non-consensual behavior, but the actually sexuality. They may not know what it is, but they sure as hell have it in various degrees.
I'm afraid I just don't have any good stories for you. I was practically a-sexual until my husband had to mess it all up. *grin* Looking back on things, though, I do realize I was pansexual (for lack of a better term) ever since I can remember. But being attracted and turned on are kind of different. At least, they are to me. But then my entire sexual experience is pretty weird.
People are just scared to death to think a child can be sexual in this country. I don't quite understand it. *sarcasm alert* Yeah, sure, it's fine to hunt down and beat the @#%$ out of someone who MIGHT have a naturist picture of a child somewhere, but it's certainly not okay to own that picture. And that child ought to be ashamed. SHAME!!! *sarcasm detector sparks and lights on fire... again*
fear
Is where I think it comes from..
People are afraid of their own dark side and hidden urges.
because look what happens in other countries when
children are thought of as sex objects..they're
sold into prosititution, etc etc.
people just can't see to be aware of something without exploiting it.
not saying all people..but the majority.
Well I didn't actually *do* anything until I was around 17. but I had been having those feelings and ideas all my life.
I mean I remember taking baths with my friends when i was around 5 or so..
there was something there...
but we didn't touch eachother as far as i can remember except for maybe the usual child exploration bit...
'why do you have one of these and i don't?' yank' 'scream'
I do remember one time when i was around 8 or so..
was staying in north carolina and there were other kids there...there was this area semi outside where this kid I knew was taking a shower and her mom was helping her.
Now I remember this kid Max i had a crush on looking at the girl and me and him looking at eachother and I remember feeling very aware what sex i was.
Mike~
Yeah...
Thats pretty much How I am..most likely how everyone is who posts here..not gay but not straight..
Those things are interesting that happen before one
can analyze them away or have guilt over them..
theres a certain magic to them because of that.
There is another side to this tho.
One wants to have people recognize it that children can have sexual feelings, but people older shouldn't ever act on it with the children, and it really shouldn't be part of any authority figure and child relationship so its tricky.
so in a way, I'm glad that people are in their dillusion cuz the alternative seems kinda spooky.
but then if people's ideas of sex weren't so taboo and @#%$ up, i guess there wouldn't be anything to fear.
I mean i do think alot of parents are aware of the sexuality of their kids and it causes alot of the powerstruggles that go on especially in teenage years cuz they dont' know how to handle their own feelings.
I think that some taboos do keep people safe to a certain extent.
but its also important to see that they are taboos..people use taboos instead of having self awareness and self control..and i guess until people learn that stuff we need some of them.
*shrugs* It's simplistic, sure... but it's definitely interesting. Might even shock some people into thinking differently/more openly.
Not straight, not gay, more than just your stereotypical "bi", not liking the labels but needing them only to express to other people... it's bothersome.
And sadly I think that's all I have to say right now. My Caffeine is wearing off.
breaking all the taboos
I'm frankly freaked out that this subject is coming up here and now. I just re-discovered my link to this place and have been dealing with this very potent issue in my own mind over the past month. I considered making myself a pseudo-pseudonym for this discussion but have decided that it would be ridiculous. Ms. Fur, you seem to be sliding near the same wavelength as I am on many subjects and occasions.
I will apologize in advance, for my story is not light, funny or pleasant. Excuse me if this innapropriate to this discussion, but since this subject seems taboo, I feel I should represent the unspeakable within the taboo. (that doesn't even make sense, but neither does what happened)
I remember, from when I was very small, having a very lovely feeling when I lay a certain way...and if a laid that way for a long time, it felt verrrrry good. I don't remember it being connected to any type of fantasy or image. It was just like floating off on a cloud to someplace I could go all by myself. My small childhood is the last time that I ever had such a feeling.
In my Pandora's Box are incidents in which I was the subject of adult sexuality. I remember blocking out the events to such an extent that I no longer seemed to be anywhere near my body. I was too little to really have words for what was happening, but I knew it wasn't right. The adult person was one of my caretakers and my mental confusion was so great that I shut down my sexuality completely. I did that at such a young age that I still don't know where the button is to turn it back on. I remember having very intense and exhausting dreams in which I had to rearrange the entire world. I think that was the way my subconcious expressed having to rearrange my wiring.
To this day, I'm not sure if I feel worse about not having sexual feelings or about being too (something?) to have them. I feel robbed, that's for sure.
I'm probably going to wish I hadn't sent this message, but then again, I should try not to add to the supression of sexual experience, whatever it may be.
@#%$ "Lolita"
sorry, i tried to let it go but i had to come back to give my opinion on "Lolita" which gives on of the most pitiful excuses for child sexual abuse.... that the child seduced the adult and the adult was unable to control theirself because of the powerful child sexuality. get a @#%$ grip. this disgusts and enrages me beyond reason.
ya, and i seduced my molester with my wily coo-ing and toddling about in my sexy footed pajamas.
*contemplative*
Orin~
I've never read the boook..I saw the movie with James Mason in it..the original I guess...
god he's icky.
It was interesting..but it seemed like a pretty cruel story to me.
Shaed~
*Hugs* ....You know...
I knew it was something like that when you were alluding when you were here about something in your past..
I'm very glad you can say it here..
As for lolita..
see the thing is,
I've known young girls, well teenagers anyway,
who did actually have older guys wrapped around their fingers...the thing that kept it from really being all true...
was that they beyond the ego the got from it, didn't realize what it meant or the real power they had as women and not just as sexy little girls who could control guys thru sex.
As for lolita...like i said to Orin, I haven't read the book.
the movie really disturbed me and i found myself switching the channel alot..
I mean the guy wants the young girl, so he kills the mother and kidnaps the daughter , doesn't let her have any friends or boyfriends her own age, makes her miserable, and you know i couldn't bare to watch the end of the movie...i seem to remember someone saying she killed herself?or someone did..
yes, by itself, her charecter really gets across the sexuality of a young girl...
but you see the whole thing is so foggy...
I have known guys who went out with girls who were 16 when they were 25 and older whether its to feel in control or to feel young again...not sure...but i think more of it is...
theres this awful misconception...
that girls that age take things less seriously than older women do...and that they are *easier* to deal with...
when the opposite is true, young girls take things very seriously everything is for the first time, and what happens to them then is so crucially important and determines their future relationships.
see, I can see how a young girl would turn a guy on...i don't mean a toddler, i mean a 16 year old say.
there will always be that attraction for experience to innocence and innocence to experience.
But as much as someone older should be responsible, I also think that people who are in their teens know more of what they are doing than adults think, and can be masters at being things they are not and trying on roles.
Traci lords pretended to be 18 so she could become a porn star... yes now she feels less innocent than
she would if she hadn't gone down that road...but she was also determined to do that.
I've always felt my sexuality very strongly...
yet its always felt...repressed in some way,
usually by outer circumstances...so i have gotten to like letting it out i secret.which would explain why i'd get off on certain situations we talked about.
but no this is what i was gonna say...
I always had fantasies about older guys when i was younger..and i still tend to gravitate to them..not insanely older...but I'd say up age 38 if I liked a guy alot.
theres something very primal going in the interaction..
where both potentially have something to teach the other...but it rarely works out that way.
Just as I was starting to be aware of my body changing, and starting to like the changes,
my half brother who was living with us, started to make comments on my body, what was wrong with it,
the things that turned him on about it, until i wanted to hide in baggy clothes...and eventually i did.
I was afraid of how powerful my sexuality was because it seemed like it caused these advances...when really it was just him being way out of line.
....
Something else that I realized awhile ago was this..
I had had anger at my parents for well tons of things,
still do, but
I had had anger that they never said one word to me about sex the whole time i was growing up.
said nothing, and then my dad would freak out whenever a guy (even just a friend) slept over.
the first thing i ever heard about sex was 'I hope your being careful'..
Now of course this really pissed me off at the time because 1, they pick NOW to pay attention?!
and 2, I was a virgin.
They wanted to stay as far away from the subject of my sexuality as possible, and i learned to want that too.
My mom has always been majorly out of touch with her own, having it deeply repressed in her all her life,
my dad...deeply scared by the passion he saw in me..
I think one of the main things i haven't said in this topic...but should..
is, I feel its an absolute mistake when people act like children and teenagers are one and the same.
they are not adults, but they are not children they are a blend of both and something else as well.
this was at its height in the golden era of movies, when
once a child star reached puberty, he had to pretty much wait to grow up till he could be in anything.
teenagers simply did not exist.
anyway, i came to realize that i was blessed that my parents didn't dictate my sexuality or intrude, cuz every other area they did got majorly @#%$ up.
so i think my sexuality as my creativity are one and the same and particularly my sexuality was kept free thru this
Granted...
Shaed, there is never an EXCUSE for child abuse, obviously. But, even if it is rare, there are some children who do know about their own sexuality, and do persue it. To use that as an excuse, however, isn't acceptable--most certainly when it didn't happen that way in the first place. I was illustrating with my mention of Lolita how messy a thing like that can get even when it is perfectly consensual--at first. Control issues pop up all over the place.
Pandifur, it IS a cruel story (especially through the eyes of Kubrick). Very much so. Meant to strike a bunch of protected places. But it is certainly intereting. The remake (with Jeremy Irons) was a lot more brutal in some ways. But it does plainly illustrate the sheer number of bad situations that can occur. Though I'm not sure if I'm saying any of this quite right.
And I would agree that children and teenagers are certainly not the same. Completely different species.
grrr....i am frustrated because i am having a difficult time expressing my thoughts on this matter. so, rather than trying to make it concise, i am just going to spill some random thoughts.
i totally realize that children and teenagers should be thought of separately. i shouldn't have likened "Lolita" to my own experience, the additional comment was an emotional response. however, my opinion on Lolita remains the same.
i have seen 11 year old girls "acting sexy" i have seen 16 year old girls playing with their powers of seduction.
the other day, i saw a little girl, maybe 3 or 4 in a stroller. she was very beautiful. everyone who got on the train told her mother that she was beautiful. a man, about 20 got on the train. the little girl was staring at him. then she pulled down her shirt and rubbed her nipple while looking at the man. she had some candy that she rubbed on her nipple and tried to lick it off. i thought to myself that perhaps this child learned this behavior by witnessing adult sexual behavior. kids learn what seductive behavior is by seeing it.
of course children are aware of their sexuality. certainly teenagers are. but where do you draw the line? if we don't want to teach kids about sex in school, and parents are reluctant to do it, they are definately going to find out for themselves. it just seems far more appropriate for them to be doing this within their own age and experience range. beyond the physical act is all of the emotional vulnerability that comes with it. a teenager is most likely to concede authority to the older person and this makes it an unbalanced relationship. an adult should respect the differences and leave them alone.
in my opinion, an adult who sees a teenager behaving seductively and acts upon their own desires is predatory and selfish. a more appropriate relationship between adult and teen is one where discussion takes place and knowledge is shared verbally.
blah, i am still not getting out what i mean to say.
for a more fun opinion from me about sex, see comments made in lavendise.
Agreement
Well, sure. Opinion is just that and I'm certainly not aiming to change it. Just using an example.
And I totally agree with you, that kids should discover their sexuality on their own and however they feel most comfortable. Sometimes that can be among older people, but that's where this whole argument comes in, so I won't repeat it.
And I do also agree that adults acting upon the seduciton of a very young girl ARE acting on impulse, and ARE selfish. I'm here to say that I happen to believe it is not the IMPULSE that is wrong, or bad, or in any way sick or disturbing--it is ACTING UPON it, where the problem comes in. But, that is me.
heehee
conversations certainly seem to be getting more interesting..but then we are in gemini now...
guess thats why everyone's...*talking* about sex, and about potentials rather than actuals..interesting..
Shaed~
well, its a confusing issue...and certainly its hard to get one's point across clearly when one still is conflicted over stuff relating to it. which i can relate to.
I do agree that an older guy just out to say,
get as many young girls as he can is incredibly selfish.
and cowardly i might add.
there is also something about people who feel
shitty and are unwilling to act to change it that wants to corrupt what they see as innocence in others, or rather, have it rub off on them for a short while and th e corruption is worth it.
I was ini love with my english teacher in 9th grade,
and i mean really in love not a silly crush.
I wrote him and told him this in a long elaborate letter..or i thought it was elaborate then...but it was a good letter..
he was scared shitless i think...
but he eventually wrote back,
saying i made him wish he wasn't so damn old...
then he said at the end of the letter maybe we should go out for drinks sometime, which i never knew what that meant, that he was talking to me as an adult and it was like, a drink with friends, or if he had a moment of giving in or something...anyway he left his phone number,i called and said i'd love to have drinks with him,
and i never heard from him again.
don't hold it against him..
I do appreciate that he didn't go down the other road...
although i doubt it could have been worse than some of the experiences with people my own age.
Well...
I'll put it this way; when it comes to conversation, I can't really consider any subject "too taboo". But when it comes to sharing personal experiences, some of them are locked away for a reason. Not a lot, granted, but some.
hmm
fair enough.
I know I can only talk so much about stuff I've mentioned here...see can't even say it again...without starting to freak out...
as you once said a mindfuck is still a @#%$.
scuttlebutt
Unregistered User
(12/30/03 10:20 pm) Reply
The first time....
Hmmm do I remember the first time? How could I forget! I thought I hurt myself the first time I released the pressure from my lil guy. I honestly didn’t know what happened I thought I needed a band aide. Note I feel odd typing this with my cat Skittles sitting next to me STARING at the computer screen as I type. It really is a shame that it wasn’t more romantic but it happens how it happens, right? I found a dirty magazine I spent two days SCARED to death my mom would find it. I hid it in my tree house. It doesn’t seem to matter if you are at the top of a 100 foot tree at that age with a dirty mag you expect, you KNOW that your mom will catch you. Well one day she went to work and I was alone. I climbed in my tree house and well… let’s say instinct took over. I think I was about 22 years old. Okay 22 minus about 12 years
Re: The first time....
Yeah...As I was telling you,
The first time I came, I didn't know what was happening, I just knew it felt good.
I'm kinda glad I was alone, and didn't associate it with something some guy did to me...
I like having had that experience with just myself the first time.
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