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BigG
Unregistered User
(2/27/02 11:45 am)
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Is it worth using supplements?
With a huge increase in the number of types and outlets of supplements, I come to find myself asking if we even need them?! Personally I've never used them and think you can get just enough from a healthy diet. What are the advantages of using them? Please explain :)

buffbear
Moderator
Posts: 7
(2/27/02 3:40 pm)
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Are suppliments worth it
Damn right they are. Problem is finding the consistently good ones. Hormonally, your body starts peaking in the early 20's (sometimes earlier, sometimes later depending on the individual). Many of the really good ones , like growth hormone, start falling rapidly. I've read in a few places that it decreases 50% every 7 years after age 20. Same for other things like testosterone too. So growth hormone precursers and testosterone precursors (like androdiol) become important for gains. And then there are the 19-nor-androdiols - all the building blocks for the liver to turn into steroids. AS far as protein suppliments, if you want to make real gains in muscle size and mass, you will be hard pressed to do it on regular foods - you'll get sick from overeating.
Now, I am 50 and have been working out regularly. 4 weeks ago, I decided to try competition this June. So with little changes in exercise program, and lots of supplements, I have made "visible" progress in the last 4 weeks (and when I can see changes in myself they must be significant). I'll be starting to diet down in another few weeks, and suppliments will be of prime importance in dropping some 40 pounds in 13 weeks while maintaining muscle mass.
If you are in your late teens or early 20's suppliments are not as important. If you want to stay fit and toned, they are probably not necessary at all. But if you want to become BIG and LEAN, it will be far easier (at any age) with suppliments. In my opening statement, I said something about consistency. Go with the name brand products like Cytodyne, Biotest, Met-Rx, EAS, etc. They have stringent quality controls in place so yo uknow what you are getting. I have tried some off brand stuff that admittedly was worthless.

BigG
Unregistered User
(2/27/02 6:04 pm)
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Re: are supplements worth it
What about the consequences healthwise? At your age, 50, for how long have you been using them? and what? Also you didn't say anything about the consequences (I can't help but think the damages especially to the liver you just mentionned) in the long term.
I read that steroid abuse can also cause undesirable body changes like breast development and genital shrinking and I don't know whether the boyz use them (although it looks like they do, no offense) so my next questions will be how much is too much? Is there a safe way to use them? What about just taking protein supplements? What would the gains be using protein supplements only? with addition of those precursors?
Thank you for you feedback and good luck in your preparation to next June competition (BB or powerlifting by the way?). Hope to see pics of you when you win :)

buffbear
Moderator
Posts: 8
(2/28/02 7:35 pm)
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Is it worth using supplements
After I wrote my response and posted it yesterday, I thought something to drive the point home. Go back and look at the pictures of the old time bodybuilders in the 40's and 50's before steroids and supplements (Reeves, Grimek, Atlas, Sandow, etc). Compare them to the Natural bodybuilding champs of today - guess what, the newer guys blow them away. Why? - Supplements. They didn't have them back then. Now I'm not saying that some of the "natural" guys don't cheat with steriods at some point, but many of them are strictly natural - which means they use over the counter supplements from GNC, Vitamin World, etc which include the Andros, Tes Boosters, Growth Hormone precursors, etc. Some one replied about long term effects. - First of all I don't use steroids (can't afford them if COULD get them), but I know guys who have used them in moderation for over 20 years. They get regular checkups and show no liver problems. I have been using supplements (Androdiols, nor andro diols, GH Secretagogues, etc for some 3 years now, and all my bloodwork comes back better and better each time. And again, I take them according to recommendations. Don't get caught up in the bodybuilding mentality that if 2 work well, 10 will work better.

BigG
Unregistered User
(2/28/02 8:45 pm)
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Re:Is it worth using supplements
Good point comparing generations of bodybuilders. I also appreciate the separation you made between types of supplementation which, to me, lacked in your first answer. Again, best of luck next june and hope to see pics of you then.

Mr Insight 22
Registered User
Posts: 2
(2/28/02 11:26 pm)
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Re: Re:Is it worth using supplements
Be careful with the prohormones. Except for 1-AD, all the rest can convert to estrogen -- they are processed differently in different users. Still, some guys swear by them. The most essential supplement is protein powder from a reputable company -- pivotal in getting enough protein if you don't want to eat chicken breasts and tuna all day long. Glutamine and ZMA are also helpful. Creatine is good for some purposes, but I wouldn't take vast amounts.

-Mike, co-operator of www.jasongremley.com


buffbear
Moderator
Posts: 9
(3/6/02 6:21 pm)
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Is it worth using supplements
Regarding prohormones converting to Estrogen- Partially true. Rule of thumb: If the prohormone ends in "dione" - stay away. These can aromatize into estrogen. If it ends in "diol" take it. These are very resistant to aromatization. Be wary of blends which have lots of "diones" and few "diols". But even if you take the diones as recommended on the label, you probably aren't getting much into your system anyway. A 100 mg capsule of tablet by the time it makes a second pass through the liver only yiels about 5mg. Thats why trainers will usualy recommend between 400 and 600 mg per day. Now the sublinguals (under the tongue)yield a much larger dose into the blodstream so be sure they are diols you take this way.

GayWolfMuscle
Unregistered User
(7/12/02 1:16 pm)
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Supplements & changes in body builders over the past 50
I think you're being a little simplistic if you claim that supplements are the reason why natural body builders of today are bigger than the ones of the 50s.

Take almost any sport, and you will see enormous differences between performances 50 years ago and today. For example, in figure skating, a triple jump was considered essentially impossible; now it's routine and people are doing quad jumps. That isn't because of supplements! That's mainly because the psychological barrier was broken. Improved training and coaching techniques have contributed a lot as well.

I'm not saying that supplements aren't useful, it's just that they aren't the only (or maybe even the major) reason why natural body builders are bigger today.

roadblock
Registered User
Posts: 2
(7/15/02 11:48 am)
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Re: Is it worth using supplements?
YMMV, but in my experience, if you want to get big, lift heavy. Supplements and the like are secondary.
roids on the other hand... :D

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